Well it seems I'm damned if I do -and I'm damned if I don't!
My previous blog post - "Using the word 'ORIGINAL'" - has had quite a mixed response...and it seems that when we write, others interpretation of our written words can be so mixed.
So to help clarify things I thought I would actually put myself on the chopping block for all to see exactly what I did write. Like I said on the other post - yes I can be very "reactionary" when things happen - but I become very pissed off when someone claims I am not a good human being because I tried to point out to another person that sadly what they thought was an "Original" idea ISN'T!
So here goes with the convos.....
My 1st contact to the lass concerned - in red I am putting what I meant by what I wrote, and in light of this whole situation - could I have written the 1st response better??....most definitely yes - but I wouldn't have left things off, but rather added to it by giving better explanation.....but hmmm- in part of my response I thought I had given an indication to it...*sigh* oh well!...I'll let others be the "Judge and Jury" on it..
"I notice you are claiming designs like these as "originals" designed by you, but I can say without a shadow of a doubt that this particular design I have had out in the public eye since November 2009 and have been making these since as far back as the late 1970's and early 1980's. (Trying to point out that sorry - what you are claiming as "original" isn't true....not by definition of the Oxford dictionary..there are designs out there EXACTLY the same that were done prior to yours)
I have also had a tutorial for these - which has been widely purchased from a very popular site - available since January 2010, as well as having not long placed it on my own personal website.(Wasn't insinuating that my tutorial HAD been purchased - just trying to say "hey I have one"...this design is out there...therefore what you think is original sadly isn't. )
I don't have a problem with people selling pieces made from tutorials I've produced - but when people say what they are producing are "original" designs and I know for a fact the design has been done prior to the claim being made - sorry - but it sort of gets my heckles up and leaves a rather sour taste in the mouth. (Here I should have put the part about the selling of my tutorial up with the other paragraph, and started a fresh one with the opening - "But when people say what they....etc. Also I should have used the word "a" instead of "the" - and also should have put a full stop after "claim being made" and left it at that as yes - the rest of it was me being me and opening my mouth to change feet!)
So rather than say a design is an "original" - sometimes it is best to do a bit of homework and find out if in fact it is - or if something already exists for it...then at least simply say that the piece was made by you without the mentioning of it being an "original" design....that way you are less likely to get into any heated waters over things...just saying."
(Lost in interpretation!..."hey I'm trying to help you...so someone else won't slam you")
cheers,
Suzi Campbell
The response I received.
"I was shocked and a bit hurt at the accusations in this letter. I would like to confirm with you:
Until I received your convo, I did not hear of you or see any of your designs. I do not purchase tutorials off the internet. I agree that our methods may be similar but I am positive that I have taught myself this method. I browse a lot around the handmade market and have not seen a piece like this before.
In addition, although our techniques are quite similar, our use of this technique is entirely different and therefore our designs are completely in-identical. I understand your frustration had I actually copied off your design as my own, but you must understand that it is possible for 2 people from opposite ends of the world to come up with a similar type of design.
It is still an original design that I did not copy off from anywhere. The design of a piece goes a lot farther than the technique used to make it, and therefore my pieces still have a signature style of their own. You have created a technique to make a flower out of briolettes (quite brilliant), mine is completely abstract, with a space in the middle...
I would like to add, that should you ever feel the need to send someone a message like this again, you can write it differently. First of all, you can take the time to clarify first. Secondly, it would be helpful to identify yourself. I had to google your name (tg your site was the first result) and then go through all your pieces to find one that might be the one you're talking about. A couple of links would have been nice. And thirdly, the accusations were straight out rude. A touch of civility could have been nice. Talk the way you would if you were face to face , keeping in mind that there's a human on the other end...
Please do not contact me about this again."
Summary of the overall response I received - it was as far as I can see a first written reactionary response..BUT! - sorry if you are making jewellery you owe it to YOURSELF!! to go do some research!!.. Can 2 people come up with the same design - sure they can!...I'm not STUPID! and after being on this planet for 55yrs would like to think that I have some Intelligence too and would also like to think that I am a pretty fair - understanding and decent person as well.
But the issue here is this - It becomes irrelevant if 2 people came up with the same idea - what becomes VERY!! relevant is who did it 1st!!! - or when the first notable sighting of a design came into being that is relevant today, and especially if it was being heard in a Court - they would look at what was dated first if there were copyright issues being bought to task...
The argument here is not whether a person feels the "design" is original to them because they claim to have not seen it before - it's whether the design has ALREADY been done before....that is the main point of all this. That is what Copyright Law is about, and then it gets even more complex from there depending on when the design 1st came about and what year etc etc - hence why reading up on Copyright Law when your are in business is VITAL!.
My last reply - yes - I did reply even though she said not to - and why did I reply?...read on - I think it becomes self-explanatory.....
"Xxxxxx thank you for your response - and I am contacting you again as I didn't at any time feel I said anything rude nor blatantly accuse you or say straight out that "hey that's my design!"
On the contrary - I merely said it is a good idea to delve a little deeper before claiming something as being "original" which way too many people do - even if they have never seen a design before...it doesn't detract from the fact that there are things out there that pre-date claims made - I have seen it happen many times.
Also - if you take away the bead from the centre of the ones I do - there is a star pattern - there has to be because of the way the wires are wrapped round...so they aren't dissimilar..they are in fact the same.
It would have been nice if you'd taken a moment and re-read my comment carefully before jumping to conclusions as I was in fact trying to help you insofar as understanding using the term "original" - as defined by Copyright Law - original means that nothing pre-dates an item....not the fact that a person or persons for whom are making the claim of originality of a piece may never have encountered it...that unfortunately is irrelevant. If things like this were before a court - they look at dates - not how a person came up with it - or if they saw it previously or not...that was all I was trying to say.
The only thing I will apologize for not doing as I have looked back at my first message to you and that is about a link - as I thought I had actually put in a link - and I can see I didn't....so for that I am sorry.
I will not however apologize for anything else as I am a pretty amenable and fair person and was trying to say - be careful when you label something as an "original" because if it can be proven that something else pre-dates what is claimed - then it can be a whole different ball game.
Hey I too have been in a similar situation in thinking what I thought was a pretty original and unique design - until I did a little more research and found out that there were things exactly the same that pre-dated what I had come up with...disheartening...very much so - but I didn't let it stop me from being creative. The only thing it made me realize is I had to be careful of making a claim that something was "original".
Again - many thanks for your response...I wish you all the best.
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
So now I've received as said mixed reaction to my original blog post "Using the word ORIGINALS" - and now having put this out there for people to actually see what transpired - whilst I'm not fussed if some view me as a cow, bitch - not a nice person - all I can say to that is please open your eyes with regards to what the definition of the word "original" actually is.
STATEMENT: - DID I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE PERSON DOING THE DESIGN??....NO I DID NOT.....DO I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE PERSON CLAIMING THE DESIGN AS "ORIGINAL" - YES I DO!
WAS I "REACTIONARY" IN MY 1ST MESSAGE?...IN SOME WAY - YES - IN LOTS OF WAYS - NO. WAS I REACTIONARY IN MY 2ND RESPONSE - DEFINITELY NOT - I WAS PURELY TRYING TO HELP SOMEONE NOT GET THEIR BUTT KICKED BY A LESSER UNDERSTANDING PERSON WHO WOULD HAVE NO QUALMS IN HAULING THEIR BUTT TO COURT.....end of statement.
Just in closing - but to the person who said am I claiming that we ALL have an obligation to checking things out before writing the words "Originals" against a design???
You bet your boots I am!...we owe it to OURSELVES to become educated in what is acceptable and what is not....what's been done and what hasn't - if we are treading on people's toes and ultimately effecting "their bread & butter" or if we aren't..bottom line is not to be NAIVE.
It is a reason why the Industry we are in is the way it is - people don't bother to check - nor look up and see if something else exists prior to making claims of "originality", and besides - copying can be done very intentionally, and at the same time very unintentionally too...maybe people should go check this out....
http://marieforleo.com/2012/01/how-to-deal-with-copycats/
...read some of the comments from people and what they have had to deal with.
Bottom line and in closing this post - making my jewellery IS ALSO MY BREAD & BUTTER...as I'm sure it is everyone elses too....but when you continue to make pieces claiming them as original when proof can be shown to you - then you have an obligation to YOURSELF to correct it...otherwise others can come to a conclusion that isn't necessarily founded that all you are doing is riding on someone else's coat-tails.
My next blog post WILL be filled with cheer and creativity...I'm gonna make sure of that!!..LOL
...until then... ...remember - Smile!...it's FREE!
cheers
PS. FOOTNOTE*** - This blog post was NOT! done maliciously - nor with intent to discredit people - it was done to say- "Hey - guess what - I too have feelings - I too am trying to make a living - I too know what it's like when you do a design and find out you were not the 1st to come up with it - I too know that to get anywhere in this business - you'd better develop a bit of a "thick skin" - as I KNOW! there are some who will not look at you twice and will do what they want.." This post was also done to try and help people get passed certain things and look at things for what they REALLY are - and not what is assumed...again JMHO...
My previous blog post - "Using the word 'ORIGINAL'" - has had quite a mixed response...and it seems that when we write, others interpretation of our written words can be so mixed.
So to help clarify things I thought I would actually put myself on the chopping block for all to see exactly what I did write. Like I said on the other post - yes I can be very "reactionary" when things happen - but I become very pissed off when someone claims I am not a good human being because I tried to point out to another person that sadly what they thought was an "Original" idea ISN'T!
So here goes with the convos.....
My 1st contact to the lass concerned - in red I am putting what I meant by what I wrote, and in light of this whole situation - could I have written the 1st response better??....most definitely yes - but I wouldn't have left things off, but rather added to it by giving better explanation.....but hmmm- in part of my response I thought I had given an indication to it...*sigh* oh well!...I'll let others be the "Judge and Jury" on it..
"I notice you are claiming designs like these as "originals" designed by you, but I can say without a shadow of a doubt that this particular design I have had out in the public eye since November 2009 and have been making these since as far back as the late 1970's and early 1980's. (Trying to point out that sorry - what you are claiming as "original" isn't true....not by definition of the Oxford dictionary..there are designs out there EXACTLY the same that were done prior to yours)
I have also had a tutorial for these - which has been widely purchased from a very popular site - available since January 2010, as well as having not long placed it on my own personal website.(Wasn't insinuating that my tutorial HAD been purchased - just trying to say "hey I have one"...this design is out there...therefore what you think is original sadly isn't. )
I don't have a problem with people selling pieces made from tutorials I've produced - but when people say what they are producing are "original" designs and I know for a fact the design has been done prior to the claim being made - sorry - but it sort of gets my heckles up and leaves a rather sour taste in the mouth. (Here I should have put the part about the selling of my tutorial up with the other paragraph, and started a fresh one with the opening - "But when people say what they....etc. Also I should have used the word "a" instead of "the" - and also should have put a full stop after "claim being made" and left it at that as yes - the rest of it was me being me and opening my mouth to change feet!)
So rather than say a design is an "original" - sometimes it is best to do a bit of homework and find out if in fact it is - or if something already exists for it...then at least simply say that the piece was made by you without the mentioning of it being an "original" design....that way you are less likely to get into any heated waters over things...just saying."
(Lost in interpretation!..."hey I'm trying to help you...so someone else won't slam you")
cheers,
Suzi Campbell
The response I received.
"I was shocked and a bit hurt at the accusations in this letter. I would like to confirm with you:
Until I received your convo, I did not hear of you or see any of your designs. I do not purchase tutorials off the internet. I agree that our methods may be similar but I am positive that I have taught myself this method. I browse a lot around the handmade market and have not seen a piece like this before.
In addition, although our techniques are quite similar, our use of this technique is entirely different and therefore our designs are completely in-identical. I understand your frustration had I actually copied off your design as my own, but you must understand that it is possible for 2 people from opposite ends of the world to come up with a similar type of design.
It is still an original design that I did not copy off from anywhere. The design of a piece goes a lot farther than the technique used to make it, and therefore my pieces still have a signature style of their own. You have created a technique to make a flower out of briolettes (quite brilliant), mine is completely abstract, with a space in the middle...
I would like to add, that should you ever feel the need to send someone a message like this again, you can write it differently. First of all, you can take the time to clarify first. Secondly, it would be helpful to identify yourself. I had to google your name (tg your site was the first result) and then go through all your pieces to find one that might be the one you're talking about. A couple of links would have been nice. And thirdly, the accusations were straight out rude. A touch of civility could have been nice. Talk the way you would if you were face to face , keeping in mind that there's a human on the other end...
Please do not contact me about this again."
Summary of the overall response I received - it was as far as I can see a first written reactionary response..BUT! - sorry if you are making jewellery you owe it to YOURSELF!! to go do some research!!.. Can 2 people come up with the same design - sure they can!...I'm not STUPID! and after being on this planet for 55yrs would like to think that I have some Intelligence too and would also like to think that I am a pretty fair - understanding and decent person as well.
But the issue here is this - It becomes irrelevant if 2 people came up with the same idea - what becomes VERY!! relevant is who did it 1st!!! - or when the first notable sighting of a design came into being that is relevant today, and especially if it was being heard in a Court - they would look at what was dated first if there were copyright issues being bought to task...
The argument here is not whether a person feels the "design" is original to them because they claim to have not seen it before - it's whether the design has ALREADY been done before....that is the main point of all this. That is what Copyright Law is about, and then it gets even more complex from there depending on when the design 1st came about and what year etc etc - hence why reading up on Copyright Law when your are in business is VITAL!.
My last reply - yes - I did reply even though she said not to - and why did I reply?...read on - I think it becomes self-explanatory.....
"Xxxxxx thank you for your response - and I am contacting you again as I didn't at any time feel I said anything rude nor blatantly accuse you or say straight out that "hey that's my design!"
On the contrary - I merely said it is a good idea to delve a little deeper before claiming something as being "original" which way too many people do - even if they have never seen a design before...it doesn't detract from the fact that there are things out there that pre-date claims made - I have seen it happen many times.
Also - if you take away the bead from the centre of the ones I do - there is a star pattern - there has to be because of the way the wires are wrapped round...so they aren't dissimilar..they are in fact the same.
It would have been nice if you'd taken a moment and re-read my comment carefully before jumping to conclusions as I was in fact trying to help you insofar as understanding using the term "original" - as defined by Copyright Law - original means that nothing pre-dates an item....not the fact that a person or persons for whom are making the claim of originality of a piece may never have encountered it...that unfortunately is irrelevant. If things like this were before a court - they look at dates - not how a person came up with it - or if they saw it previously or not...that was all I was trying to say.
The only thing I will apologize for not doing as I have looked back at my first message to you and that is about a link - as I thought I had actually put in a link - and I can see I didn't....so for that I am sorry.
I will not however apologize for anything else as I am a pretty amenable and fair person and was trying to say - be careful when you label something as an "original" because if it can be proven that something else pre-dates what is claimed - then it can be a whole different ball game.
Hey I too have been in a similar situation in thinking what I thought was a pretty original and unique design - until I did a little more research and found out that there were things exactly the same that pre-dated what I had come up with...disheartening...very much so - but I didn't let it stop me from being creative. The only thing it made me realize is I had to be careful of making a claim that something was "original".
Again - many thanks for your response...I wish you all the best.
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
So now I've received as said mixed reaction to my original blog post "Using the word ORIGINALS" - and now having put this out there for people to actually see what transpired - whilst I'm not fussed if some view me as a cow, bitch - not a nice person - all I can say to that is please open your eyes with regards to what the definition of the word "original" actually is.
STATEMENT: - DID I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE PERSON DOING THE DESIGN??....NO I DID NOT.....DO I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE PERSON CLAIMING THE DESIGN AS "ORIGINAL" - YES I DO!
WAS I "REACTIONARY" IN MY 1ST MESSAGE?...IN SOME WAY - YES - IN LOTS OF WAYS - NO. WAS I REACTIONARY IN MY 2ND RESPONSE - DEFINITELY NOT - I WAS PURELY TRYING TO HELP SOMEONE NOT GET THEIR BUTT KICKED BY A LESSER UNDERSTANDING PERSON WHO WOULD HAVE NO QUALMS IN HAULING THEIR BUTT TO COURT.....end of statement.
Just in closing - but to the person who said am I claiming that we ALL have an obligation to checking things out before writing the words "Originals" against a design???
You bet your boots I am!...we owe it to OURSELVES to become educated in what is acceptable and what is not....what's been done and what hasn't - if we are treading on people's toes and ultimately effecting "their bread & butter" or if we aren't..bottom line is not to be NAIVE.
It is a reason why the Industry we are in is the way it is - people don't bother to check - nor look up and see if something else exists prior to making claims of "originality", and besides - copying can be done very intentionally, and at the same time very unintentionally too...maybe people should go check this out....
http://marieforleo.com/2012/01/how-to-deal-with-copycats/
...read some of the comments from people and what they have had to deal with.
Bottom line and in closing this post - making my jewellery IS ALSO MY BREAD & BUTTER...as I'm sure it is everyone elses too....but when you continue to make pieces claiming them as original when proof can be shown to you - then you have an obligation to YOURSELF to correct it...otherwise others can come to a conclusion that isn't necessarily founded that all you are doing is riding on someone else's coat-tails.
My next blog post WILL be filled with cheer and creativity...I'm gonna make sure of that!!..LOL
...until then... ...remember - Smile!...it's FREE!
cheers
PS. FOOTNOTE*** - This blog post was NOT! done maliciously - nor with intent to discredit people - it was done to say- "Hey - guess what - I too have feelings - I too am trying to make a living - I too know what it's like when you do a design and find out you were not the 1st to come up with it - I too know that to get anywhere in this business - you'd better develop a bit of a "thick skin" - as I KNOW! there are some who will not look at you twice and will do what they want.." This post was also done to try and help people get passed certain things and look at things for what they REALLY are - and not what is assumed...again JMHO...
IMO, you were not rude at all - just the opposite. When I read your original mail, I can see a good-humored person (You, Suzi from Oz) give someone a heads-up. Too bad that the other end seems to be overly ticklish... which gives me certain second thoughts: We have a saying here in Germany, about "someone who defends himself (unasked for), in fact accuses himself/gives himself away".
ReplyDeleteJust saying.
Jutta
Hey Jutta - thank you so much for your comment and support - it's greatly appreciated. :)
ReplyDeleteAs I mentioned in other places - I know full well that there will be those who support what I've said etc - and those who won't - and I'm fine with that...so long as it gets people thinking and being a little more diligent in what they do and the way they do it...then it has very much been worth it.
Oh! and I'm not unaccustomed, as I'm sure folks have now gathered, in putting my neck on the chopping block!!...lol
I really do want people to learn - grow - challenge themselves - seek information - question things, and above - think outside the box when it comes to creative license.
Ahh yes...this is one very fickled industry we are in!..lol
Thanks again Jutta. :)
cheers
Suzi